bengarland
1 post
Oct 13, 2009
9:16 AM
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I'm at my wits end trying to figure out how to make stringy seitan. I know how to make seitan a few different ways that are quite tasty, but none of these end up with a meat-like stringy quality.
I have posted an article about seitan that I wrote over at Accidental Hedonist, as well as asked a question (with little success) on Ask Metafilter.
Nobody seems to know how to make stringy seitan, except one guy named Ray in Philadelphia. He runs a small company called "Ray's Seitan" and somehow his turns out stringy just like a steak. So far he hasn't shared his recipe, but he has apparently told others that there is no big secret to his method and he doesn't use any fancy machine to do it. Apparently all it takes is knowledge of some ancient technique.
[As an aside, if you've ever been to the vegan restaurant Horizon's in Philadelphia and had their grilled seitan steak (which Ray custom makes for them) you know what I'm talking about!!!]
Any help? I have searched Google over and over with little success. I can find lots of great seitan recipes, but no specifics on how to make it stringy like Ray's or the stuff you can get in a can from Taiwan (like "Mock Duck").
Thanks,
Ben
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Jennie
13 posts
Oct 13, 2009
11:56 AM
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Hi bengarland,
Asians quite often use tofu skins in their seitan or mung bean powder products. I'll ask my brother as he knows far more than me about it.
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Bryanna
Owner/Moderator
2628 posts
Oct 13, 2009
12:48 PM
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They also have "stringy" seitan at Candle 79 in New York-- great BBQ Seitan sandwich! You can make it somewhat stringy by following the long kneading directions that I use for my seitan "turkey" (see http://www.bryannaclarkgrogan.com/page/page/1435893.htm ). It might be "stringier' if the tofu wasn't used-- I'll have to try that. The long kneading defintely helps you get that "striated" texture. Perhas you could shred it like "pulled pork" by slicing it when hot (fairly thin) and using largefork tines.
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bengarland
2 posts
Oct 13, 2009
4:27 PM
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Jennie: I looked at the ingredients for the mock duck that I have and it's just wheat gluten, water, soybean oil, soybean extract (what IS this?), salt, and sugar.
Bryanna: I've heard that Candle 79 uses Ray's Seitan (but not confirmed for sure). I'll check out your seitan turkey recipe and see what happens. I'm determined to figure this out :)
Ben
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Jennie
14 posts
Oct 14, 2009
1:56 PM
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My brothers reply - Vermicelli threads. These only need to be soaked in warm water to soften. They are "pre-cooked" There is another "white version" of the same stuff that look a little like veins (empty ones).
I strongly suspect chopped vermicelli threads. Mung bean thread would do it too. It is a fairly tough texture. Quite "stringy" as well.
I saw people making the "skins" for Mung wraps at a show after last Xmas. I would be surprised if it was a variant of that technique.
With the mung bean skins a small hot plate is used and the mung dough is pushed on to "stick" to the plate and then pulled away and it forms "strings". It is then pressed on again and again over some 15 secs or so.
Then the result is left to cook / dry enough to be lifted off and the process starts again for another "bean curd sheet". These are used by soaking like vermicelli and used as a wrap.
They can make some I guess 2 - 3 "skins" per minute.
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Jennie
15 posts
Oct 14, 2009
1:57 PM
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My thought is if only wheat gluten, water, soybean oil, soybean extract (can’t help you there), salt, and sugar are the only ingredients used then the stringiness has to come from the method of preparation.
I immediately thought of mozzarella cheese and how it is stretched in hot water. I see Bryanna has already suggested trying something along these lines.
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Bryanna
Owner/Moderator
2631 posts
Oct 14, 2009
3:18 PM
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I don't think we can compare homemade gluten with the canned Chinese product, which IS made in an industrial setting.
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bengarland
3 posts
Oct 15, 2009
6:44 AM
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True, but that doesn't get us much closer to figuring out how Ray does it. :-) I'll keep at it. Perhaps it has to do with the type of flour he uses and his kneading technique.
Here are the ingredients for Ray's Seitan:
Unbleached unbromated wheat flour, filtered water, soy sauce (water, soybeans, wheat, salt), Kombu (sea vegetable).
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Bryanna
Owner/Moderator
2632 posts
Oct 15, 2009
8:05 AM
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Sounds like an old-fashioned handmade seitan recipe. He's making the gluten by hand, rinsing off the starch from the flour (very laborious and messy-- trust me, I've done it that way!). It must be either his kneading and/or shaping/folding technique, and/or cooking technique.
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LLHB
23 posts
Oct 21, 2009
7:52 AM
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I have made a sort of stringy seitan by taking the raw gluten and rolling it out thin, roll up like a jelly roll and put in a cloth bag I made with a zipper in it (kind of like a miniature round gym bag) so that when it expands in cooking in a broth it can only expand as much as the bag allows. It is very similar to the mock duck you can buy at the Asian store in texture. My Mother used to make this and then make a bread dressing and layered the two, for Christmas. She pulled the gluten apart and it had a stringy texture.
Lorna
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Bryanna
Owner/Moderator
2636 posts
Oct 21, 2009
4:49 PM
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Thanks, Lorna! I will try that!
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tinks
1 post
Oct 22, 2009
1:09 PM
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I can remember reading some years ago that by making seitan in a pressure cooker it had the texture of meat.
Havent tried it myself but may be worth giving it a go.
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Bryanna
Owner/Moderator
2639 posts
Oct 22, 2009
3:25 PM
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In my experience, the heat is too intense in a pressure cooker to make good seitan, and it comes out spongey.
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Linda
728 posts
Oct 30, 2009
2:21 PM
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Bryanna's roast is a lot like roast beef -- cooked in the crock...
Also, I think the most meat-like is Bryanna's duck. It's my all time favorite and NO ONE has ever thought it was seitan, soy, or any "fake meat"! It's the simplest, too.
I wonder if Ray uses yuba???
Also, "soybeans" as an ingredient doesn't tell you much. It could be any form of soy!
You can get a very meaty texture by combining soy which has been prepared differently -- for example, use wheat gluten and some textured soy protein (or yuba) and you'll get a much different product than wheat gluten + tofu or soybeans! Yet, you could just say both contain "wheat and soy"!
Last Edited on 30-Oct-2009 2:22 PM
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sage0925
1 post
May 03, 2010
8:55 PM
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Ummm...I made two of those crock pot seitan roasts...two different recipes...put both in the freezer afterwards. The only thing I can say is that both were cooked on low overnight, kneaded for 10 minutes and allowed to rest for 20.
Both turned out stringy and very wonderful in a couple of stir frys. I pulled it apart instead of cutting it.
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