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VEGAN FEAST SUBSCRIBERS' COOKING AND RECIPE FORUM>
Non-stick vs regular cookware
Val
164 posts
Nov 30, 2006
2:15 PM
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I have a couple pieces of Calphalon non-stick cookware that has peeled off (the non-stick coating is coming off in several parts). I feel that it's a lot of wasted money because both those pieces were purchased within the past 6 months. Someone suggested I get commercial cookware without the non-stick coating. Does anyone have any opinion on this? I take care of my cookware, appliances, etc. so the damage is not from rough use.
Would it be easy to adapt to "regular cookware" (like stainless steel) when I've been cooking in non-stick all these years ?? I'm very careful about the amount of oil I use, so I wonder if regular cookware would mean higher fat food ?? Any thoughts on this ?
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Val
Last Edited on 30-Nov-2006 2:16 PM
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Brenda W.
143 posts
Nov 30, 2006
2:47 PM
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Hi Val,
All but one of my pots and pans are NOT the non-stick. I have the All Clad stainless. I love these because they are indestructable, tough, can go in the dishwasher, etc. I can use any kind of utensils with them (metal, etc). They are heavy, with the aluminum core ... so they still heat very evenly.
And I've found that when I need to use them for frying, where one might reach for a non-stick pan, instead I use medium high heat, heat the pan itself initially, then add a tablespoon or so of oil to the pan once it is hot, and then several moments later (once the oil is glistening) add in whatever I'm going to stir-fry or whatever.
Then, I keep a measuring cup of water or broth handy, and dribble in a few drops of the liquid as I'm cooking, to keep it from sticking.
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laureen
42 posts
Nov 30, 2006
3:58 PM
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I swear by the professional calphalon. I don't own any teflon or other non-stick cookware. Actually, I lied, I own 1 non-stick sauce pan and I never use it unless I run out of everything else and need to boil spaghetti.
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JulieH
366 posts
Nov 30, 2006
7:19 PM
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Hi Val,
I think that Calphalon has a lifetime warranty (or at least 10 year) on the non-stick line. So I would contact them directly and tell them what happened. I think that you ship it to them and they will ship you new ones.
I do agree with Brenda about the All Clad. It's great. I have a hodge podge of different brands. Val, if you have a Home Goods store or TJ Maxx near you, check them out because you can get great deals on single pieces, which is a nice way to test drive cookware.
Good luck!!
Julie
Last Edited on 30-Nov-2006 7:24 PM
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Debbie
1266 posts
Dec 01, 2006
2:22 PM
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Hi Val,
The best pots and pans is All Clad. But they are EXPENSIVE. I don't have any.
Regarding non-stick use, what Brenda said above is right in using All Clad. But it is not exactly the same as using non-stick frying pan which you can use oil spray for low fat cooking. In using the stainless steel frying pan, the food still stick if you use oil spray. For very low fat cooking, it won't work since you still have to use oil.
I heard from Yongkie who has All Clad pots and pans, the representative from All Clad said that eventually all non-stick pots and pans will peel. So buying name brand non-stick pots and pans that cost a lot is a waste of money.
I just buy a cheap no name brand frying/sautee pans from a Chinese market and then throw them away once the finish is dull and started to peel. I go through non-stick frying pans a lot, throw them away and buy often. I don't think non-stick pots are useful so buy the All Clad for pots if you want but buy cheaper non-stick frying pans. I bought a set from Pampered Chef pots and frying pan (all non-stick) in 1993 and still have the pots now, still looking ok. I threw away the frying pan a few years ago.
I am more like Julie with my pots and pans. They are not from 1 set. I have different brands and didn't buy a set. After my experience with buying the Pampered Chef set, I found that I need more 3 or 4-quarts pots in my kitchen and they don't have to be non-stick. I only need a few non-stick frying pans/sautee pans.
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Debbie
Cooking is like love. It should be entered into with abandon or not at all. ~ Harriet Van Horne
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Bryanna
Owner/Moderator
1900 posts
Dec 01, 2006
4:00 PM
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I'll wade in on this-- the classic Calphalon (not nonstick) is excellent and does not require alot of oil.
However, I do not believe in buying sets of cookware becuase you want different materials for different jobs. I have some anodized aluminum, like Calphalon (which does not give off aluminum into the food), some cast iron, coated and uncoated, some aluminum-bottomed stainless steel, some nonstick, skillets only, not pots.
Here are some articles about choosing cookware:
http://www.fantes.com/cookware.htm
http://www.cooklikeaprofessional.com/quality_cookware.html
http://www.taunton.com/finecooking/pages/c00007.asp
Here is an article about using and choosing nonstick cookware:
Chefs weigh in on nonstick pans
Anyone who assumes that professional chefs wouldn't deign to cook with anything but their well-worn, lovingly seasoned stainless steel or cast-iron frying pans should guess again.
Not that all chefs use them. Of the five chefs The Chronicle spoke to, three give thumbs-up to nonstick; the other two thumbs-down.
Here's what they had to say:
Gary Danko, restaurant Gary Danko, San Francisco: "Yes, we use it. There is a role for Teflon in the kitchen.
"If you look at any metal, there are pores in it, just like there are pores in your skin. When you cook meat, those pores grab it and hold onto it until it's cooked, then they release it.
"Teflon pans don't have the pores -- they're sealed off. It's good for searing things if you want the caramelization to go on the product, but not stay in the pan. For example, I use Teflon for a salmon medallion with a horseradish crust. The caramelization goes onto the crust; it doesn't stick to the pan.
"They're also perfect for making things like crepes and omelets.
"If you're making a pan sauce, you need to deglaze the sauce, so you need the caramelization to occur in the pan, so you wouldn't use Teflon."
Danko says about 10 percent of his pans are nonstick.
"The downside to Teflon is the pans wear out. If you were to buy a very expensive pan with a nonstick coating, it would be a waste of money, because the surface would wear out and you'd be stuck with an expensive pan you can't use.
"So, buy an inexpensive one at K-Mart and throw it away after a year."
Nancy Oakes, Boulevard, San Francisco: "No, I don't use it. It doesn't hold up. It's very difficult to use in a restaurant setting. You can't put a fork in it; you can't put tongs in it -- once you breach that exterior, you have to throw out the pan.
"Also, high heat tends to burn it. Restaurant cooks tend to think there are only two settings on the stove: off and hot. "
Oakes, who prefers All-Clad stainless steel pans, acknowledges that her bias may be a function of running a large restaurant, with less control over pan upkeep. Boulevard has 175 seats, versus, say, Gary Danko, which has 75. She says she uses nonstick pans at home.
"It cleans up so easily, and when clean-up is very difficult, it kind of discourages us chefs from cooking at home."
Hiro Sone, Terra, St. Helena: This 92-seat St. Helena haunt is further evidence of the small-versus-large nonstick theory, as Sone uses a few of the pans.
"Like, for cooking scallops, a Teflon pan works well, if you make it without flour.
"Potato pancakes, or potato sticks, or pan-frying noodles -- noodles are starchy and will stick to a pan no matter what. I use a Teflon pan for crispy garnishes, like a Parmesan tuile. We sprinkle it in a circular motion, then flip it over. You can't do that with a regular pan."
About 10 percent of his pans are nonstick, Sone says.
Ron Siegel, The Dining Room, Ritz-Carlton San Francisco: "Never! Taking care of them ... it's the worst," says the chef at this 175-seat restaurant.
"You can make anything you want in a regular pan; you just have to heat up the pan first. It's always about controlling the heat.
"Teflon always gets ruined. If you let the heat get too hot, it'll bubble. It's just impractical.
"We had a chef come up here, and he said, 'I need some Teflon pans to cook my food.' I said, 'Dude, get outta my kitchen.' "
Roland Passot, La Folie, San Francisco: "Yes, I use Teflon, especially for fish purposes. In the old days, you had to season your pan, then roll the fish in flour to get the right color and it wouldn't stick so much. Now you don't need flour and you don't have to use too much fat.
"Black bass or striped bass, you throw it in with the skin on and it comes out nice and crispy. It's really magic."
Passot says at least half the pans in his 60-seat place are Teflon, "maybe more." He has about three dozen, most of them by Wearever. "They're fairly inexpensive. I think it's a great tool to have.
"You still have to use cast iron for the meat. With meat you want the pan to get really hot, smoking hot. Heat is almost the enemy of Teflon."
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Chemical exposure lands Teflon maker in hot water
DuPont has been subjected to three major lawsuits over alleged pollution by a chemical that's necessary to manufacture Teflon.
Perfluorooctanoic acid (PFOA), or C-8, is used to smooth out PTFE, which tends to be clumpy in its natural state. Shown to cause birth defects in animals, C-8 is estimated to be in the blood of more than 90 percent of humans, although in levels below what is thought to be dangerous, according to recent studies.
The chemical also is prevalent in normal household dust.
DuPont studies, including a recent peer-reviewed analysis, indicate that C-8 is not present in Teflon itself -- the chemical is eliminated in the heating process that bonds the Teflon to the pan. But there's no question C-8 is out there in the environment.
DuPont's legal troubles over C-8 began in the late '80s when Wilbur Tennant, the owner of a family dairy business in Parkersburg, W. Va., saw almost 300 of his cows sicken and die. He suspected it had something to do with the creek water they drank, and discovered that a nearby DuPont plant was dumping waste into the water.
Tennant sued, and documents uncovered in the trial showed that the chemical company was indeed dumping C-8 into the stream and had been aware for 20 years that C-8 was potentially hazardous.
DuPont and Tennant settled in 2001 for an undisclosed amount, but the case triggered a much bigger lawsuit, this time a class-action effort filed by 50,000 West Virginia residents claiming contamination of their drinking water.
That suit, in turn, brought on an investigation by the Environmental Protection Agency. In February, DuPont paid out $107.6 million in settling the class-action suit. The EPA case is still pending, although DuPont recently admitted that it hid medical data for 20 years, and may have to pay up to $300 million in fines, according to the federal agency.
Last month, the U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia subpoenaed DuPont for documents pertaining to C-8 as part of a grand jury investigation, Bloomberg.com reported.
DuPont is the third-largest chemical company in the world, with $1.8 billion in income last year, and $200 million in profit from Teflon sales, according to Hoover's business database. DuPont maintains it has reduced PFOA emissions by 98 percent by treating wastewater and scrubbing air, and it is now sharing proprietary information with other companies on how to eliminate the chemical.
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Putting nonstick pans to the test
The Food section tested eight 10-inch nonstick pans in The Chronicle's test kitchen: We fried eggs to test the pans' nonstick surface, we cooked hash brown potatoes to determine how well the pans browned, and we sauteed chicken breasts to see how much fond -- bits and juice used to make sauce --
was left behind. For each task we used a small amount of butter or olive oil to help with flavor and consistency.
-- Cucina ($10), aluminum coated with low-end Teflon. The clear underperformer.
-- T-Fal Soho ($30), stainless steel bonded to an aluminum base, coated with a proprietary multilayer surface and a heat-indicating red dot.
-- Anolon Titanium ($50), anodized aluminum with titanium to make the pan dishwasher-safe; high-end Teflon surface.
-- Anolon Advanced ($50), same as above, except the nonstick is also on the outside of the pan for easier clean-up.
-- Circulon Elite ($63), anodized aluminum with a grooved cooking surface that the company claims allows the high-end Teflon surface to last longer.
-- Calphalon One ($110), heavy-duty anodized aluminum with multilayer surface by Akzo-Nobel. Performed best in three out of four tasks.
-- All-Clad Stainless ($120), anodized aluminum bonded to stainless steel interior and exterior, high-end Teflon surface.
-- All-Clad LTD ($140), same as the All-Clad Stainless (right), with anodized aluminum exterior.
While the $10 Cucina underperformed in all the tests, none of the other pans emerged as a clear winner or loser. The mid-price pans fared well against the expensive ones.
If we had to pick a favorite, it would be the Calphalon One. It made a perfect fried egg, left lots of fond from the chicken (and browned the breast nicely, too), produced well-browned potatoes and was easy to handle. But the All-Clad Stainless outperformed it with the hash browns, and other pans came pretty close. The Anolon Titanium, at half the price of the Calphalon One, equaled it with the hash browns, and barely trailed it in the other categories.
Of the mid-price pans, the Circulon Elite, with its circular grooves, did poorly in the egg and chicken tests, but OK with the potatoes. The two priciest pans, the All-Clad models, were average, although the All-Clad Stainless shined with hash browns.
Note: For the potatoes we used an old-fashioned cast-iron skillet as a control pan, and it crushed the competition, including the expensive All-Clad pan.
The major limitation of our pan testing was in durability and longevity. Only time can test how nonstick surfaces will hold up. However, many manufacturers offer lifetime warranties, and they could come in handy if the pan itself outlives its nonstick surface.
For those concerned with style, we loved the handle on the Anolon Advanced, which was stainless steel covered with silicone. Comfortable in hand, it was an ample foil to the pan's weight.
-- D.R.
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Nonstick pans do's and don'ts
Nonstick pans have improved to the point where some manufacturers say they are safe for metal utensils and for dishwashers. (However, DuPont's own care site does not recommend either of those approaches.) There's no hard and fast rule, but common sense dictates that when the nonstick surface is scratched and very worn, it's probably time to get a new pan. Some general do's and don'ts:
Cooking
-- Do: Feel free to cook without oil or butter, unless you want them for flavor.
-- Don't: Use spray-on oils like Pam. They leave a film on the pan's surface that can build up over time.
-- Don't: Use metal utensils. Wood, rubber and plastic are preferable.
-- Don't: Leave pan unattended on an open flame, or allow pan to get hotter than 400 degrees. Fumes from overheated, empty pans can kill birds and cause illness in people (see accompanying story).
Cleaning
-- Do: Use mild soap and a nonabrasive sponge or pad.
-- Don't: Use cleanser or steel wool. If tough stains are encountered, it's OK to use a nonabrasive cleanser like Bon Ami.
-- Don't: Wash in dishwasher. Even if the manufacturer says the pan is dishwasher-safe, dishwasher soap can degrade the pan over time.
Storing
-- Do: Keep separate from other pots and pans, which can scratch nonstick surfaces.
-- D.R.
E-mail David Rubien at drubien@sfchronicle.com.
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Brenda W.
144 posts
Dec 01, 2006
5:03 PM
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Debbbie .. you bring up a good point: All Clad doesn't do super low fat real well. While I don't drown my food in fat, I do utilize more oil than what folks call for in fat-free cooking. Probably 1 1/2 to 2 Tbsp. to saute/stir fry.
I got my All Clad on eBay. While it does not sell at much of a discount, if you're patient, you can occasionally get a good deal on a given pot or pan.
I bought the ones I have one at a time on eBay, over the course of a couple years. Didn't hurt near that much in the wallet that way!!
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Val
165 posts
Dec 01, 2006
5:16 PM
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Hi everyone! Thanks for all your replies and all the tips everyone has shared with me. I wanted to give you all an update on what the Calphalon company said. They are going to mail me a shipping lable, and will refund my money or mail me replacement skillets. They said they don't usually pay for shipping, but because my items were purchased fairly recently, they are willing to pay for it this time.
I was glad to read that not everyone uses non-stick, although most of you have some non-stick for when you do need it. I'm going to get a few individual pieces of various types of cookware and try those out. I agree that buying whole sets would be a waste of money, especially because the sizes not always what we need. Good thing this happened now, DH is going to get me the cookware for Christmas :)
Bryanna, thank you for all the articles. I can relate to one of the quotes in there - I too use 2 settings when I'm cooking in a hurry - Off & High!!
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Val
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laureen
46 posts
Dec 02, 2006
8:43 AM
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Great posts...very informative.
As a side note...my Mom rescued some birds and built an aviary...she cannot use teflon coated pans when cooking because the fumes given off kills them. She found this out the hard way.
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Debbie
1267 posts
Dec 02, 2006
10:28 AM
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Oh, yes, I forgot about my cast iron frying pans. They are GRREAATTT! If you season it well with oil it become sort of non-stick frying pans too. I love them. They are great to make Bryanna's Perfect Cornbread and Tofu Frittata. Cast iron pans also great to make Korean Bulgogi with TVP slices. I guess I just automatically grab certain cookware for certain recipes without thinking about it.
For Chinese cooking or stir fries in high heat, I think my 20 something years old wok I bought in China town is the best, still. This one if you season it well with oil would also be sort of like non-stick.
I agree with Bryanna that each kind has it's own purpose and I have a variety of them in my kitchen and haven't bought a set of cookware. I am glad most people are doing the same thing like I do. For Bryanna's vegan omelet with tofu, non-stick omelet pan is necessary, I think and would be impossible to do without it.
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Debbie
Cooking is like love. It should be entered into with abandon or not at all. ~ Harriet Van Horne
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Bryanna
Owner/Moderator
1961 posts
Jan 20, 2007
1:42 PM
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Some updates:
From http://hgic.clemson.edu/factsheets/HGIC3864.htm
"Although nonstick pans will wear away with hard use and particles may chip off, the Food and Drug Administration has stated that these particles would pass unchanged through your body and pose no health hazard. A coated pan heated for long periods at high temperatures will give off fumes, but these are less toxic than fumes given off by ordinary cooking oils."
If you don't want to use nonstick pans at all, the classic Calphalon and other good makes of anodized aluminum pots (not nonstick) are excellent and do not require alot of oil for cooking.
From http://hgic.clemson.edu/factsheets/HGIC3864.htm:
"The anodization process hardens the surface of aluminum cookware making it non-stick, scratch-resistant and easy to clean. Manufacturers claim that a final stage in the anodization process seals the aluminum, preventing any leaching into food. This cookware doesn’t react to acidic foods, so these pots and pans are top choices for cooking rhubarb and sauces with tomato, wine and lemon juice."
BTW, the Swiss Diamond non-stick pans that are advertised as different from Teflon, evidently are not: here's an article about it:
http://www.newstarget.com/021059.html
Circulon pans (pretty competetive prices) are recommended by Fine Cooking magazine for their even heat, and "Three coats of DuPont nonstick coating line the pan’s interiors. Circulon’s patented Hi-Low grooves protect the nonstick coating from wear by exposing only a small portion of the nonstick surface to cooking."
Some advice from Fine Cooking magazine:
"Are you trying to cook with less fat? Nonstick may be a good choice, and happily, nonstick technology has come a long way in the past few years. With the old-style, lighter-weight nonstick pans, it was hard to get the pan hot enough to sauté properly. Nonstick pans are now being made of harder, high-heat-tolerant metals, such as anodized aluminum and stainless steel, and the coatings themselves can withstand more heat and abrasion -- no more nonstick flakes in your food. Another potential disadvantage of sautéing in nonstick is the difficulty in deglazing. The nonstick surface can be so effective that you never get any good brown bits in the bottom of the pan. With Circulon, which has a finely ridged nonstick interior, browning takes place more like in a conventional pan, and Circulon's Commercial line is super heavy duty."
Amy Albert is senior editor for Fine Cooking.
"The exteriors of the pans in this set are durable hard-anodized aluminum while a hard-anodized aluminum core distributes heat evenly through the pans without hot spots. Three coats of DuPont nonstick coating line the pan’s interiors. Circulon’s patented Hi-Low grooves protect the nonstick coating from wear by exposing only a small portion of the nonstick surface to cooking. The result is longer lasting performance and easy cleaning." And, safety, I would add.
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Val
179 posts
Jan 20, 2007
10:37 PM
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Thanks for the updates, Bryanna.
Val
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