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VEGAN FEAST SUBSCRIBERS' COOKING AND RECIPE FORUM>
Questions about chicken powder, thoughtsaboutfish
jtnippon1985
5 posts
Jul 16, 2006
6:30 PM
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quick questions:
for your chicken bouillon powder...
sea salt: coarse crystal granules or finely ground?
thyme: dried leaves or ground powder?
soy milk powder: instant/cook-and-chill? AND, have you tried experimenting with soy protein isolate or concentrate? do you know if instant/cook-and-chill non-fat dairy milk powder would substitute if needed?
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Also, gotta say you're they only person (outside of major vegetarian food companies) that has made an attempt (to my knowledge) at creating seitan fish fillets. And, as good and wallet-friendly they are, I still prefer the steak-ready fish "ham" you can find at most Asian grocery markets. only problem is depending on which Chinese company makes them, the labeling leaves many questions, mainly nutritional value (ex: two could be identlcal in taste, serving size, look but have waaaay different calorie/fat/sat. fat/fiber/protein lables)
After some serious thinking, I've concluded that they if they aren't lying and are not actually using some fish bouillon, they must be using a combination of seaweed to recreate this. I've read about kombu, dulse, kelp, nori, and most recently, hijiki being used in vegetarian cooking to impart a seafood flavor. Texture..ah the texture. Looking at the label most have: soy fiber, soy protein isolate, soybean oil, vegetarian seasoning (seaweed and maybe some other things like soy sauce and mushrooms), and seaweed (the skin). I have had the pork tenderloin and turkey seitan recipes and I can say that the "fish" texture is remarkably similar to these...a tight, grainy, *almost* flakey texture. I know that that okara is a form of soy-fiber, which might lend itself to the stringy, flakey texture..or it could be soy fiber isolate, which I have yet to experience using, but have found it on a couple of health food sites. I have NOW brand pure soy protein isolate, but only use it for sausages, and for a very fine ground meat (tvp tends to fall away from gluten, even very finely ground tvp) So I think perhaps the tofu in the seitan recipes you have mimic the okara(?...i've never had okara either, so I really have no clue) And of course with so many varieties of seaweed, and not knowing which to use in combination to create a "fishy" taste and smell, I'm really stuck. I would love to be able to re-create the chinese-style fish fillets, and I think it should be possible without specialized factories. Let me know what you think, or if you ever had thoughts about a possible Seafood Seitan v2 :)
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jtnippon1985
6 posts
Jul 16, 2006
7:13 PM
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update: realized i had a bottle of kelp powder and a bottle of dulse powder.
i poured each in a spoon, and tasted...very similar to the fillets..i need to taste hijiki now and see how that is. i bet maybe a drop of soybean oil and a small amount of mushroom bouillon and soy sauce, we could possibly have something going..
here is what ive got so far:
Dry ingredients:
soy protein isolate, or tvp ground fine
seitan
chickpea flour
seasonings (seaweed and mushroom powder)
soy fiber isolate (???)
wet:
tofu
water
soy sauce, perhaps even braggs for a less saltiness/strong flavor
sesame oil, small amount, just to boost other flavors
other: untoasted nori sheets for "skin"
btw...just realized something, you know how you usualy put in tapioca flour/chickpea flour/soy flour for the seitan? well, the soy fiber isolate on the back of the ingredient list could be what they use for the "flour", although i know they dont use tofu (at least i think they dont) and your seitan oven pork/turkey roasts are the closest in texture i know of...so yeah, i dont know :P
Last Edited jtnippon1985 on 16-Jul-2006 7:14 PM
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Bryanna
Owner/Moderator
1699 posts
Jul 16, 2006
9:53 PM
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quick questions:
for your chicken bouillon powder...
sea salt: coarse crystal granules or finely ground?
FINELY GROUND
thyme: dried leaves or ground powder?
DRIED LEAVES
soy milk powder: instant/cook-and-chill?
AND, have you tried experimenting with soy protein isolate or concentrate?
ACTUALLY, MY RECIPE CALLS FOR SOY PROTEIN POWDER 9ALSO KNOWN AS SOY PROTEIN ISOLATE
do you know if instant/cook-and-chill non-fat dairy milk powder would substitute if needed?
IT MIGHT DO
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As for the "fish", I guess I should experiment with the soy and seitan loaf and some fishy flavor. My husband never liked fish in the first place, so I don't really concentrate on that. Have you tried my "salmon" in the April/May 05 vegan Feast? (It's wrapped in nori.)
I doubt that they use okara for soy protein-- it actually is mostly fiber. But, you never know. Keep us posted on your experiments!
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"To look like a goddess, eat like a peasant." Karen Andres
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Debbie
1188 posts
Jul 17, 2006
7:29 AM
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I have a recipe of 'fish' fillet that is similar to the ones sold in Chinese market. I used yuba to make it and kelp powder. If you can get fresh yuba it is the greatest if not, the dry ones will do. I use food processor to grind the yuba to very tiny pieces and then put the spices and some cornstarch in. I also add a little bit of sesame oil and mushroom bouillon powder (chinese style) for taste. Then I roll them into a nori, steam them, and let it cool. You can shape them in a round roll or flat fillet. After they are cool, the filling will firm up.
The yuba makes the flaky texture.
I don't think they are lying since they are served in Buddhist vegetarian restaurant. A restaurant near my house, called Wheel of Life, the owner is very strict vegetarian and he checks the source. They serve this kind of fish in his restaurant. Kelp powder is the key ingredient to make them fishy. Dulse powder is not strong enough. Wakame is also fishy. In the past, I have used reconstituted wakame in my fish to make it fishier but then it will have dark green specks in the fish.
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Debbie
Cooking is like love. It should be entered into with abandon or not at all. ~ Harriet Van Horne
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jtnippon1985
7 posts
Jul 17, 2006
12:38 PM
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sorry, i got a bit confused on the chicken powder answer...so, before you blend everything together, the sea salt is coarse, correct? and you said your recipe calls for the protein isolate...but it says soymilk powder on the webpage, does this mean the recipe you have call for isolate, and you posted soymilk powder, or ????
sorry, just wanted to clear some stuff up before i make this...(nutrtional yeast is expensive here)
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Bryanna
Owner/Moderator
1706 posts
Jul 17, 2006
2:28 PM
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Sorry, but where did you get the broth recipe? In my files it's soy protein isolate, and that's what I use. Maybe there was a typo, and I should correct it.
And I start out with regular finely-ground sea salt.
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"To look like a goddess, eat like a peasant." Karen Andres
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jtnippon1985
8 posts
Jul 17, 2006
5:26 PM
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1 and 1/3 c. good-tasting nutritional yeast flakes
3 T. onion powder
2 and 1/2 T. sea salt
2 and 1/2 tsp. garlic granules or powder
1 T. soymilk powder
1 T. white beet sugar
1 tsp. dried thyme
1 tsp. finely crumbled dried sage (NOT powdered)
1 tsp. paprika
1/2 tsp. tumeric
I got this from vegsource.com
It says "Bryanna's homemade chicken powder"
I couldn't seem to find yours in my archive of past issues, would you mind posting yours please? Thanks :)
PS: If this is yours, or if your version uses sugar, can I just used granulated white sugar? (only sugar I have access to in my kitchen at the moment)
Last Edited jtnippon1985 on 17-Jul-2006 5:27 PM
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Bryanna
Owner/Moderator
1708 posts
Jul 17, 2006
9:18 PM
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Here's my recipe-- I think yours was the old version. Use either one. White sugar is fine.
BRYANNA'S HOMEMADE VEGAN CHICKEN-STYLE BROTH POWDER
makes about 1 and 1/2 C.
Blend in a dry blender:
1 and 1/3 c. good-tasting nutritional yeast flakes
3 T. onion powder
2 and 1/2 T. sea salt
2 and 1/2 tsp. garlic granules or powder
1 T. soy protein powder
1 T. vegan sugar
1 tsp. dried thyme
1 tsp. finely crumbled dried sage (NOT powdered)
1 tsp. paprika
1/2 tsp. tumeric
Store in an airtight container and use 1 level tablespoon per cup of water.
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"To look like a goddess, eat like a peasant." Karen Andres
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jtnippon1985
9 posts
Jul 18, 2006
5:53 AM
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lol, sorry, just two last things, for the sage, can i used rubbed, or do i need whole dried sage, and have to crumble it myself?
and...
im blending this in a large coffee bean blender, so would max fine setting be good?
Last Edited jtnippon1985 on 18-Jul-2006 5:54 AM
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Bryanna
Owner/Moderator
1709 posts
Jul 18, 2006
8:38 AM
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You can use rubbed sage-- just don't use ground because it's usually poor-quality. It doesn't have to be super fine.
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"To look like a goddess, eat like a peasant." Karen Andres
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